Shane Leary joins Miles Yu to discuss the growing trend of antisemitism in China, and its deep roots in the Chinese Communist Party and Marxist ideology. They then turn to the end of Panda diplomacy, with no plans to renew agreements with China for Panda’s in US zoos, and the way in which these agreements reflect the broader mistakes in US-China relations. Finally, they talk about the exit of two private sector giants from the Chinese market, the Vanguard Group and Gallup, and what this portends for economic relations with the PRC. Follow the China Center's work at https://www.hudson.org/china-center
Shane Leary joins Miles Yu to discuss the growing trend of antisemitism in China, and its deep roots in the Chinese Communist Party and Marxist ideology. They then turn to the end of Panda diplomacy, with no plans to renew agreements with China for Panda’s in US zoos, and the way in which these agreements reflect the broader mistakes in US-China relations. Finally, they talk about the exit of two private sector giants from the Chinese market, the Vanguard Group and Gallup, and what this portends for economic relations with the PRC.
Follow the China Center's work at https://www.hudson.org/china-center
Miles Yu:
Welcome to China Insider, a podcast from Hudson Institute's China Center.
Shane Leary:
It's Tuesday, November 7th, and we have three Topics this week. The first is the growing trend of anti-Semitism in China and its deep Roots in Marxist ideology and within the Chinese Communist party. Second, we discuss the end of panda diplomacy, and the way in which this curious phase of US-China relations reflects broader trends in our understanding of China. Third, we discussed the exits of Vanguard and Gallup from China, two US giants in the private sector, and what this signals in the trajectory of US China economic Relations. Miles, how are you?
Miles Yu:
Very good, Shane. Glad to be with you again.
Shane Leary:
Me as well. So for our first topic I wanted to talk about the growing antisemitism in response to the Israel-Hamas war, which is unfortunately a global trend at the moment. And while I think a lot of us have been shocked by what we've seen on US college campuses and in protests in major cities, perhaps more surprising is this trend in China, a country without a historical experience of antisemitism. So in the immediate aftermath of October 7th, we saw a family member of an Israeli diplomat in China stabbed in Beijing, and now we're seeing an uproar of anti-Semitic comments across social media in China. And, and it's worth noting that from my perspective, at least, these statements being made are bold and conspicuous, lacking, sort of the usual cleverness of Chinese citizens on social media, which seems to suggest that the sensors and thus the party are not interested in containing these messages. Miles, can you give us an overview of what we're seeing here and your initial reaction to it?
Miles Yu:
I think you know, there is a spontaneous bias and prejudice. There is also a state-sponsored manipulation of bias and prejudices. In a Chinese case, it was definitely the antisemitism is surging. It has a lot to do with the government manipulation information and the censorship. I'll give you one example. The most popular video and movie sharing giant in China is a website called the billybilly.com. Also commonly known as B-side. It's basically, you know, a China's version of YouTube, and even bigger, there is a movie Schindler’s List that has been consistently ranked very high because it's a good movie. So the ranking was a 9.7 before the Hamas atrocities on Israel. Immediately after that, there's a lot of people went to that site and gave one star and read nasty comments. And that Schindler’s List rating dropped dramatically within a few days from 9.7 to 4.3. In the aftermath of the Hamus genocide. Now, don't get me wrong, there a lot of people in China who were sympathetic to the Israeli's plight. They were condemning Haas, but they were not allowed to strive. Their comments were censored severely. So this is basically a state-sponsored anti-Semitism, it’s an expression of the state policy on part of the Chinese government.
Shane Leary:
I want to ask, you know, China is not Europe. It does not have a long history of antisemitism, and there are very few Jews living there today. So, you know, where does this come from? My understanding is we saw maybe an initial intensification of this trend as early as 2020. Is this an accurate assessment or does the trend go back further? Can you talk a bit about where these ideas are coming from in China?
Miles Yu:
It goes very, very deep and it, it has a lot to do with the Chinese communist ideology. China is guiding principle is Marxism-Leninism. Marxism is deeply anti-Semitic. If you read the Marxist classics, you basically find two things that is really germane on this topic. One is Marxism is profoundly anti-wealth, anti-capital, anti-money. Number two, Marxism-Lininism is basically fueled by conspiracy. It's very easy to be, to create and propagandize conspiracy in China. So China is a fertile ground for anti-wealth and for conspiracy. If come, combine this two, and then you find this deep ideological root of antisemitism because the Chinese government has been finding this, this mythology, the myth that Jewish people are overwhelmingly wealthy you with that wealth, that they have a sacred plan to control international financial institutions and foreign governments.
This is basically what the Chinese populace has been indoctrinated with. The number one anti-West blogger in China is gentleman by the name of Sima Nan. Now, Sima Nan has said that during World War II, the Japanese and Jews conspired to establish a Jewish state in China. And this is just crazy. Let many people bought that theory. Well, who are the most prominent Jews in the world? Well, one of them is George Soros. Now, George Soros has the habit of shortening Chinese economy. He believes Chinese economy is ultimately untenable. He believes that Chinese technology is very dangerous to control flow, free flow of information. So the Chinese government tied George Soros with the conspiracy theory tie them with the Hong Kong protest in 2019 and 2020, particularly to tie George stories with Jimmy Lai, who is a Catholic, who is now in jail and other Hong Kong protestors.
So this is very, very deep. Now, I would even go deeper. Communist ideology, particularly Marxism, is ideologically biased against Jews. Karl Marx himself was a Jewish person, but he's like a character out of Woody Allen movie. He's a self-hating Jew. Karl Marx antisemitism was deep and rampant. Marx’s first major political article, which he published in 1844, is the one entitled “On the Jewish Questions.” In that article, Karl Marx endorsed the German socialist theorist, Bruno Bowers, rampant anti-Semitism. Now, Bower believed that to eliminate the so-called Jewish problem, you have to eliminate the Jewish religion, the Judaism. Marx agree with the Bower's diagnosis of the, so-called Jewish problem, but disagree with the Bower on Judaism, the religion being the source of the Jewish problem as a Marx determine.
Marx believed that Jews had no real religion. Jewish religion was money according to Karl Marx. Therefore, Karl Marx believed that I quote in that article of 1844, “Money is the Jealous God of Israel, beside which no other God may exist.” And Karl Marx continued. “The God of the Jew has been secularized and has become the God of the world,” end of quote, that's Karl Marx. And then Karl Marx then conclude. In that article, I quote “In emancipating itself from Hucksterism and Money, and that's from real and practical. Judaism our age would emancipate itself,” end of quote, that's from Karl Marx. Now, I would also even go even further. Karl Marx’s antisemitism is deeply intertwined with his unwavering racism. This kind of combination of racism and antisemitism in Karl Marx is a further revealed in his other ratings, particularly his letter to his ate Frederick Engels. In 1862, Karl Marx had a feud with the fellow Prussian German socialist philosopher, Ferdinand Lassalle. Here's what Marx wrote to Engels on July T 1862 about Lassalle. And I quote, “it is now perfectly clear to me as the shape of his head and the growth of his hair indicates he's descended from the Negroes who joined in Moses flight from Egypt. This union of Jew and the German on a negro base was abound to produce an extraordinary hybrid” end of quote that is from Karl Marx himself to Fredrich Engels July 30, 1862. So this kind of a deeply racist and an anti-Semitic combination is rooted in communist Marxist ideology, money and conspiracy. Those are the two pillars of Marxism.
Shane Leary:
So I mean, as you've painted here, we have a situation which obviously any people is gonna have a diversity ideas throughout the population, but there is some antisemitism embedded in the people downstream from the party, which is sort of at its core has a deep skepticism and conspiratorial view towards the Jewish people. In line with Karl Marx. Do you perceive Israel as being aware of this in their interactions with China? And I guess the, the broader question is just with this being the case and this sort of coming to the forefront now, maybe in a way that it hasn't been in the last few years, what effect do you think this is gonna have on China's relationship with Israel? And as a consequence, its attempts to frame itself as an impartial peacemaker in the Middle East.
Miles Yu:
Israeli government has protested Chinese government several times. Every time Chinese central TV station presenters would, would say that the Jews control the global institutions of finance, and the Israeli government centered protest. But that protest has become routine and it become sort of a prosaic, there's no real power. I think the fact is that much of the world still harbors the illusion that China could be an honest broker for peace and for a coexistence of different people on the face of the earth. China is an opportunist country. And I might also say what I just said earlier about the Marxist ideological root of antisemitism in communist China is also combined this Madeleine materialistic culture in China. Because China basically right now, everybody wants to get rich, get wealthy. That's one of the few things they could do because when they get rich and then realize, you know, this is the problem with the communist party, I mean, so they get rich and get out of China, but nevertheless, a lot of Chinese business oriented people harbor deep resentment and jealousy toward what they consider a Jewish domination in global commerce. This is based upon fantasy and based upon bias. And much of antisemitism generates from this, particularly in China.
Shane Leary:
Our next topic is a bit lighter, and that is what appears to be the end of panda diplomacy. With Beijing's relationship with the West souring, none of the agreements they have with countries like the United States, Britain and Australia have been renewed to keep leasing these pandas to foreign zoos. And so the pandas at the National Zoo in Washington are set to return November 15th, which will leave us only with the, an exhibit in Atlanta with that agreement set to expire next year. Miles, could you give us a bit of a background on this, especially for those who may be unfamiliar. What is panda diplomacy and why does US-China relations affect our capacity to see pandas at the zoo?
Miles Yu:
Well, panda diplomacy started with the Nixons visited China in 1972. So Patrick Nixon, the first lady at the dinner table, and look at the panda themed is a cup, a tea cup or something, and she said, “oh, it's lovely.” And the Chinese leadership took note of that. “Oh, how about I send you some panda?” So that's basically become the panda mania. You know, you talk about the upbringing. You know, personally, I am not you know, predisposed to like panda because I grew up in a panda-infested Sichuan province. Even though my particular locale was not like really panda-infested, but nearby regions, they're all full of panda. So I mean, people really didn't like panda because, you have to understand panda is a bear. It's a wild animal. It's a very surly, very aggressive, is like solitude doesn't want to be bothered. So evolutionarily speaking, panda shouldn't even exist because it has a tremendous problem reproducing itself. So I guess personal affection for animals can be very relative. I'll give you one example. Carp in the United States is considered trash fish, bottom feeders. Very few people want to eat it. But in Asia, particularly in China and Japan, carp is a symbol of good luck, fortune, fertility and success. It's a perpetual motive in holiday paintings or wedding ceremonies. So, I mean, this is all relative. I want to also speak about the image of panda, which actually is very interesting because the image of panda has been transformed over the years greatly from the loving, adorable goofballs to now nasty and skinny kung fu panda, right?
So it's her real teeth. And it coincides with the image of China over the decades, reality always catches up with fantasy very much like the 18th century European fantasy about the philosopher's king ruling a great empire in the 18th century, that sort of fantasy clashed with the brutal reality of the 19th century Europeans understanding of China being a very backward, brutal and uncivilized civilization. But also I was just thinking about this on the way to the recording studio. There's also a jurisprudence question, why should China have a monopoly of total ownership of pandas? Why should the pandas be only kept inside China? Even panda cubs born outside of China in foreign zoos, and those panthers were along by those foreign zoos with the extraordinary amount of money each year. I think it has something to do with China's monopoly about a lot of things. China not wanting to share. It wants to make profit. It wants to own everything. I mean, there's a lot of animals endemic to the America, American alligators, Sonoma chipmunks, Hawaiian Hawks, Baltimore Orioles. I mean, are we not allowed to export some of these animals endemic to America, to foreign zoo? Of course, it, it has been the case. So I'm think thinking about the panda returning to China, it has some really, really deep philosophical musings that every country must do.
Shane Leary:
That's very interesting. On the practical side of things, I mean, do you see this being a, a legitimate concern of, of either, you know, the Biden administration or, or, or US policy going forward? I mean, it, it seems to go along the lines of an argument you've made many times here that is, you know, a fundamental mistake we make is to focus on these transactional issues, which are then used by the party as leverage so that we ignore the, the broader fundamental tensions. I mean, this is a perfect example of a very narrow, specific transactional issue. Do you see this as something that might be you know, reconciled going forward?
Miles Yu:
I don't want to really elevate panda diplomacy than to higher level than it deserves. I mean panda diplomacy is long gone. It's symbolizes Americans naivete. And so it's actually pretty painful and embarrassing memory in my view, just like many other China policies in the past. So we're going through a great awakening. They're reevaluating of Americans China policy, and that has been done. So Panda goes to China. My view is good readings.
Shane Leary:
All right, well, turning to the economic side of US China relations for our last topic the Vanguard Group, one of the largest US-based funds is exiting China, dismantling its last team there and shutting its main office in Shanghai, concurrently Gallop, the US-based consultancy giant is also pulling out of China, canceling a number of projects and moving the rest outside the country. So miles, we're seeing two established giants in the private sector cut ties, a dramatic shift from the ambitious enthusiasm and expansion into Chinese markets we saw just a few years ago. How significant is this as an indicator of the future of US China relations? What is your reaction? How should we think about this?
Miles Yu:
Well, this is a reality, right? Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo went to China a couple months ago, leaving one memorable word to the world that is she said China is basically uninvestible, uninvestible. This is precisely the reason why Vanguard is one of the largest US wealth management firms. It handles trillions of Yuan It had some joint projects with some of the China's largest counterparts, including the Ang group that's formerly run by Jack Ma. Since Jack Ma was busted, so that joint venture also went busted. Gallup had been China since 1993, 3 decades ago. Gallup is in the due diligence consultancy business. In other words, Gallup business is finding out truth and reality. Truth and reality are what the CCP hates. Virtually all US and major European and Japanese due diligence firms are being chased out right now.
PRC also itself has caught off economic data sharing completely with the foreign companies making China even more uninvestible. What's remaining in China are a few big companies for the US for example, you got Kentucky Fried Chicken, you got Tesla, you got General Motors and Walmart. But their profit margin has shrunk dramatically in the last several years too. So I don't see a bright future for these even big ones who want to stick around in China. What we have here is China's fake and dishonest due diligence firms that produce fake data and biased political information.
I'll give you one example. Harvard University that has received about $80 million from, from China in the Kennedy School of Government. There is an Ash center which has done a multi-year long survey of public opinion inside China, but they actually weren't allowed to do so because of foreign polling agencies in China were very, very frowned upon. So you cannot do it. So Harvard University subcontract a Beijing based Chinese polling firm called Horizon Research Consultancy Group. That Chinese consulting group did the survey on behalf of Harvard, but the result was published in the name of Harvard University. What's the result? The result said that a multi-year survey in China has indicated that 93% of Chinese people are happy with the Chinese Communist Party. That's the message Chinese government is looking for. That's the message Chinese government has been sending to the rest of the world repeatedly through a foreign ministry spokespersons.
Well, one would wonder the fidelity of that polling, right? Because in China, even to ask the very question whether you like or disliked Chinese Communist Party runs great risk. So let alone give you an honest opinion this whole polling inside China by the Chinese firm to be published by the reputable institution outside of China is total farce. I would also ask what happened to a 7% people who say they didn't like the Chinese Communist Party? Maybe they're all in jail. So this is why finding out China's reality is a very important mountain task. Don't believe in the essence of a Chinese state statistics, what the Chinese government wants to do here. China is a completely controlled information environment. That's the lesson the rest of the world should learn.
Shane Leary:
Well, I think that's an excellent point to end on. Miles, thanks so much for taking the time. Look forward to doing it again next week.
Miles Yu:
Thank you very much. I'll see you next week.
Shane Leary:
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of China Insider. For Chinese Language listeners, be sure to check out our monthly Chinese language episodes. And for those who prefer written analysis, subscribe to our weekly newsletter. China digests the best place to stay up to date on miles analysis and the latest news on China. As always, you can stay up to date on the China Center's activities@hudson.org.